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WHENEVER a visitor to the website asks a
question about Nantwich, I usually know something about the subject, but
find myself passing it to a man who I am sure will know much more about
it, Andrew Lamberton. And if he doesn't know all about something, he
knows where to find the details.
So here is your a chance to tap
into that fount of knowledge. If there is something you have always
wondered about, now you can learn more.
E-mail your question to
askandrew@dabbersnantwich.me.uk and the answer will appear on this
page.
Please note that any question that is sent directly to Ask Andrew, or "A
Dabber's Nantwich", together with the subsequent replies, will be used for the benefit of other website users as well as yourself.
Replies cannot be sent just to the person asking the question.
If you send in a question it
will be assumed that you are happy with it being posted on the website; no
permission will be sought to use it.
Andrew has answered many
questions - on the This and That page, the
Old Nantwich Pictures pages and the
Changing Scenes
pages - and so he won't be repeating those here. But those pages will remain
on the website and you can still find those facts there.
Andrew is a published author
- along with his colleague, the late Robin Gray - with books on
lost buildings in and around Nantwich.
Historical notes
also appear in Family Lines - as well as the information on family trees
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ADDED:
PICTURES OF THE FORMER WOOD'S ROW AS IT IS TODAY -
below |
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Can you name these Mersey Tunnel
trippers? |
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Hi
Andrew, I have only recently found the web site and found it
very informative.
I have a photo of a trip to the Mersey Tunnel from the Red Cow
(above) and I was told I should remember most of the faces. But I cannot
put names to them.
My father, Joe Jones, is top right and my mother is the
lady between the ladies in white hats. Perhaps you can identify
some of them.
By the way, the photo of the workman in
Pratchett's Row in "A Dabber's Nantwich" shows my uncle, Albert
 Roscoe.
There's not a lot I can tell you about him, except that he was
married to Nancy and they lived in Rigby's Row, Nantwich.
Do you have the photo (above, right) of Welsh Row?
Vic Jones, Nantwich.
DECEMBER 2011
Andrew replies:
THE Mersey Road Tunnel was opened in
1934 and so the date of the photo is correct. The licensee of the
Red Cow that year was Jervis Armstrong.
Thanks for your information
about Albert Roscoe.
I like the Welsh Row
photo. Unfortunately I have been unable to date it but would
guess around 1910. I can make out Taylor's shop on the left but
can find no reference to them.
I like the person with
the basket on their head (inset).
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Couldn't find old row |
MY grandfather's
marriage certificate gives his place of residence at the time of
his marriage as 1 Wood's Row, Barony, Nantwich. Although on a
visit to Nantwich I was able to locate the Barony (Barony
Road) I could find
no signs of Wood's Row. Do you have any idea where it might
have been? Your help would be much appreciated
Linda Peake, Northern Ireland
DECEMBER 2011 |
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The row of houses - Barony Terrace as it
is known today - that was formerly Wood's Row. In the distance, to the
left, is the Rifleman Inn. Below, left is No 1. |
 Andrew replies:
Linda,
Yours is a very interesting
question and I think I know the answer. I found Wood's Row
mentioned in two Nantwich Street directories - 1896 and 1913. But on
looking at the equivalent OS maps of 1875 and 1910 I find it is not
marked.
It is, however, synonymous
with Barony Terrace which still exists as a row of 11 terraced
houses between Weaver Road and James Hall Street, and marked as
Barony Terrace on the two maps mentioned above. It would appear that
Wood's Row was an earlier name for this terrace and it took a while
for the name change to come in common use.
In the street directories,
John Bostock, finisher, is listed at No 1 Wood's Row in 1896, and
John Bostock, boot finisher, in 1913. Would he perhaps be your
grandfather's father?
You can see Barony
Terrace on the two maps I mentioned previously if you search on
the following website: maps.cheshire.gov.uk/tithemaps.
Find Nantwich and then select either of them.
Linda added:
Many thanks for your quick and informative response. I hope
to visit Nantwich at Christmas,
so look forward to locating Barony Terrace.
I believe the connection between
my grandfather (Charles Peake)and the John Bostock you
mention is the fact that John's wife, Phoebe Bostock, was
aunt to Charles' future wife, Alice Williamson.
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Seeking information about Nantwich shops
I NOW live in Canada and am looking for
any information you may have about a fruit and vegetable shop in
Pillory Street, owned by Ernest Cooper circa 1940s. Also any
general info or personal info regarding Mr Cooper's ancestors or
family would be of interest.
Would you also have any info on when
John France had his frame-maker and gilder business at 12 Beam
Street?
Glynis Cooper, Crystal Beach, Ontario,
Canada
SEPTEMBER 2011
Andrew replies:
Glynis,
I have had a look through Nantwich
directories for Ernest Cooper in Pillory Street and can find no
trace of him. There is no mention in 1939. The next directory is
1953 and again no mention. Did the shop go under someone else's
name?
Regarding John France, the
earliest reference is at 30 Beam Street in 1883. By 1887 he had
moved to 12 Beam Street and he was there for a long time, my last
reference being in 1938. He is described as a carver, gilder and
picture frame maker.
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We cannot find mention of streets |
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An aerial view of Market Street from St Mary's Church. Johnston's
Buildings is the row of houses (1) standing next to the Civic Hall car
park. Other marked buildings are: 2, the market; 3, the Regal cinema; 4,
cottages; 5, Robinson's boot and shoe factory; 6, the Church of England
Primary School (now Peter Wilson Fine Art Auctioneers); 7, the Civic
Hall; 8, the Technical Institute (now the public library); 9, the Red
Cow pub; 10, The Gables. Buildings 3, 4 and 5 are now the
headquarters of Chatwin's bakery. |
MY mother and I have been tracing our
family tree and have a marriage certificate with addresses in
Nantwich in 1933. One of which we can find no mention of anywhere
and another that we are assuming is Johnson's Buildings.
The first address given was 9 Johnston's Buildings, off Beam
Street, We have assumed this will be the same Johnson's Building
that is mentioned on your website. Do you know if we are correct to
assume this and if so was Johnson's Buildings located behind the
current Nantwich Library?
The other address was Beckett's Entry, off Beam Street. We cannot
find any mention of this address anywhere.
Emma Thomas, Crewe
SEPTEMBER 2011
Andrew replies:
Emma,
Thank you for your enquiry. I can
confirm that Johnston's Buildings were located where you said -
behind Nantwich Library.
The photograph above
is from my book, "Lost Houses in Nantwich", which shows the row of
houses (1) behind the Civic Hall at right angles to Beam Street.
I do not know of the
location of Beckett's Entry but if you will let me have the family
surname I may be able to locate them using street directories of the
period."
Emma later gave Andrew the surname
Stokes, but this produced disappointing news. Andrew wrote:
"I have had a look at the 1938
street directory for Nantwich and can find no mention of the
Stokes family in Beam Street or in Johnston's Buildings."
Emma - who added: "It
was fascinating to see the picture of Johnston's Buildings" -
asked about finding which church a burial or christening
occurred in, in the Nantwich parish in the 1800s.
Andrew replied: "If you
Google 'Cheshire Parish Register Project' you can find
transcriptions from the registers of some Cheshire churches
including Nantwich. Go to the database, select baptism, marriage
or burial, then select either All Parishes or Nantwich, then
enter the surname. You need to add a 1 to the date shown. i.e.
683 means 1683. Then you have month and date."
A further word from Emma:
"Andrew. Thank you for the help with my questions. It is
fascinating to rediscover information from my families past. I
should have clarified that the Stokes family lived at Beckett's
Entry (which was the place that you had not been able to find
the location of). I will keep searching and hopefully I might
find it at some point."
However, Andrew
later had this comment to make: "There were two entries
quite close together near the Barony end of Beam Street
and about where the fire station is now. In a Nantwich
Street Directory of 1896, Samuel Beckett (retired publican)
is listed in an entry between 98 and 100 Beam Street.
It is possible that this is
Beckett's Entry. A quick look at the Census of 1891 and of
1901 shows that the entries were not specifically named,
which is a shame.
The Ordnance Survey
1910 map clearly shows the 15 houses in Johnston's Buildings
with the entry that I suspect is Beckett's Entry just under
the S in Beam Street. The other entry is a few doors to the
left (or west).
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Needles recall old drapery shop
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The Simpson brothers'
shop - next to the Crown Hotel (left) - from a 1910 postcard. Below, the
scene today with Reeds Rains occupying the shop |
I WONDER if you could help me. My
mother-in-law recently passed away and I have inherited her old
sewing box. The box contains a pack of needles with the label,
"Simpson Bros, General and Fancy Drapers, Nantwich". Do you have
any recollection of this shop?
We lived in Nantwich
until 1981 when we moved to our current home. My husband, David, has
published four local history books of Haslington and Winterley
(printed by Johnson's) hence the interest in such finds as the
Simpson needles.
Many thanks.
Lesley Green, Haslington, Cheshire
AUGUST 2011
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Andrew replies:
I HAVE only found one reference to the
shop. It is in the 1913 Street directory. It says: "Simpson Bros.,
general drapers, milliners and dressmaker, 22 High Street."
That is the present
premises of Reeds Rains, next door to the Crown Hotel.
The shop had changed hands
by 1934 from when I have my next directory. Similarly, in an earlier
directory, of 1896, T.D.Hampson, general draper and silk merchant
occupies the premises.
I THOUGHT Dorothy Vaughan may have
something to say about the shop. I was right. In her "Odes to
Old Nantwich" - reminiscences of shops in Nantwich at the
beginning of last century - she has this to say:
"Next door C. Simpson made display
And there, as well, one could obtain
'Tis said that Cromwell used the
room
On first floor front - a myth.
It's certain that it was a school,
To start his education there
Then that old hostelry "The Crown"
Where coaches used to stop.
Next, for all kinds of groceries,
Was Chesters' "little shop."
H. T. Johnson was, of course, Harry
Johnson, the printer and local historian.
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Remembering pupils from 1950s |
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The Class of 1954 - pupils of Nantwich
County Primary School, Manor Road |
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I USED
to attend Manor Road Primary School, the Junior School and the first
year of the Secondary School until the girls were sent to Audlem Road
Secondary School. I wondered if you had any pictures of the Manor Road
school and of pupils who attended there between 1952 and 1959.
Many
thanks,
Val
McGuffie, Nantwich
AUGUST 2011
Andrew replies:
I WAS a pupil in the
infants from 1950 to 1955. The class photo of Mrs Ritchies' class
(above) taken in 1954 is the property of former pupil Pam George, nee
Smith. (My thanks to her for permission to use it.)
Together we can
name 90% of the pupils. Question marks show pupils whose names we cannot
remember.
I was amazed how big
the class was. Only 48 pupils!
Back row, left to
right: Alan Edwards, Michael Ashforth, David Blackhurst, ?, Graham
Dean, Conrad Elson, Leon Betteley, Andrew Lamberton, ?, and David French.
Extreme
left: David Banks and Howard Smith. Extreme right: Robert Humphries and
David Woodcock.
Next to back row: ?, ?, Delia Evans, Sylvia Sanders, Christine Thompson, Geraldine Ashwell, Margaret Evans, Miranda Holland, ?, Christine Hammersley, and
Susan Bush.
Girls, sitting:
Christine Ashley, Joyce Spear, Jennifer Tomkinson, Alma Thompson, Linda
Price, ?, Ann Lindop, ?, Pamela Smith, ?, ?, and Lillian McCloud.
Boys, front row: John Durber, Robert Bates, Peter Wakefield, John Downes, Peter
Stubbs, John Ridgway, ?, Colin Edwards, ?, Michael Price, and Richard
Sheasby.
lManor
Road School – or Wyche School as it is now – celebrated 100 years of
existence in July 2011.
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Research found inn keeper and maltster |
The Black Lion (left) and the Red Melon
Indian restaurant. Could the restaurant be a former public house?
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I WONDER if you could help me. I have
been researching my mother's family who came from Nantwich. I have a
reference to a Charles Eaton listed as an innkeeper in the town in
the late 1700s, also his father, John Eaton, listed as a maltster.
Do you have any information
on this family name and their inn? Charles was married to a
Catherine Gaunton. I wondered if this was a local name.
Eric Withers, Prestwich
JULY 2011
Andrew replies:
With Charles Eaton being an
innkeeper we can look up the information in a booklet titled
"The Inns and Innkeepers of Nantwich" written by Dr A.J.McGregor.
In it, he tells us that
Charles held the licence of the Cotton Arms public house at 33
Welsh Row, just two doors to the west of The Black Lion pub. It
was only in existence as a public house from 1749 to 1799 and
Charles only held the licence from 1795 to 1798. There is no
evidence today of this public house but it just might be the
building which is now an Indian restaurant.
I have come across the
surname Gaunton before but it is unusual. I looked on the
Cheshire Parish Register website and there are no Gauntons
mentioned. The surname Eaton, however, is quite common in
Nantwich.
I haven't come across a
reference to the marriage. There is a reference to the baptism
of a John Eaton at Nantwich on June 9, 1779, but I think he
would be too young to be Charles' father.
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Is my father on Tannery photograph? |
MY father worked at Harvey's Tannery all
his working life. He retired as the Tannery closed down and would
have been one of the last men to leave. His name was Harry Thelwell.
I have looked at the
photograph of the workers in the
1930s (Old Pictures of Nantwich) but don't recognize him.
However, this photo was taken 11 years before I was born. I
would like to know if he is in the photo or if anyone who knew
him could give me any additional information.
Marilyn Simons, Nantwich
MARCH 2011
Andrew replies:
I ONLY knew the two, Joe Pennell and
Robert Farrington, who gave me all the names they knew at the time
we put the picture on the website asking for further names.
Unfortunately, we had no response.
But I have found a copy of
an article from The Nantwich Guardian of May 5th, 1950: headed
"Britain's Toughest Workers is Their Claim. This said:
"Over in the lime yard department where
hides from many foreign and home markets lay piled, awaiting the
initial cleaning and hair-scraping process, I watched Charles Foxley
of Manor Road North, busily scraping hides as wet and slippery as
freshly caught eels. After being immersed in agitating tanks for
eight or nine days, lime solution takes most of the hair off the
skins and they are passed on to fleshing machine operators, Jack
Prince and Harry Thelwell."
That's all I have from that
article, but I have another article from the Nantwich Chronicle some
time in 1948. It mentions the long service by many employees and I
quote again:
"Twelve years after the
Harveys took over the Nantwich Tannery, Mr Jack Astley began work
there and he is still going strong. He heads the list of 'long
service' employees with 56 years and is followed by Messrs
W.Hodgkinson (55 years), G.Fisher (53), and John Basford (52). The
Tannery manager, Mr J.S.Barnett, has completed 38 years with the
firm and other employees who have made Harveys their life's work are
Messrs Fred Bebbington (34 years), W.Brassington (35), G.Crawford
(36), Albert Dutton (38), F.Ellerton (37), E.Edge (34), F.Edgeley
(30), D.Farrington (30), G.Green (46), W.Glover (30), W.Hill (29),
S.Hassall (35), P.Knibbs (37), W.Lloyd (37), J.Lloyd (33), G.Lloyd
(28), D.Merrill (35), L.Mason (29), H.Myford (34), A.Myford (28),
F.Ormes (37), J.Prince (27), J.Ruscoe (38), H.Riley (45), A,Robinson
(29), J.Samways (28), H.Sandlands (38), E.Sandlands (29), E.Shenton
(33), W.Smith (37), J.Smith (36), J.Stanton (35), S.Tilley (30),
J.Tilley (28), T.Thelwell (30), F.O'Hara (28), G.Wainwright (27) and
R. Willett (29)."
T.Thelwell could be Harry
Thelwell, but I'm not sure. If it is him he started there in 1918.
What a long service record for all those
men."
Marilyn later wrote: "It
was interesting reading the articles from the Nantwich Guardian and
the Nantwich Chronicle. The T.Thelwell mentioned at the end of the
article would have been my father as he started working there when
he was 14 - straight from Acton School - in 1918.
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Was there a Durham Heifer? |
Now a private house,
this building had many names in its history
Picture: Andrew
Lamberton |
I
HOPE you can help me. I am tracing my family history and have
discovered some on the 1901 census ( RG13/3360 SCH 09) in London
Road, located immediately after Willaston School. They are
Edwin and Hannah Metcalf, born 1855 and 1857 respectively, with
their nine children.
My question is, can you please tell me their address as I cannot
decipher the handwriting on the census. It appears to read
"Durham Heifer" or something similar. Was there a public house
by this name?
Thanks in advance for any help you can give and thanks for an
interesting website. I was born at the Barony Hospital and found
its history very enlightening. (See the
Family Lines feature).
Mike Metcalfe, Barkestone, Notts.
FEBRUARY 2011
Andrew replies:
Mike,
I can confirm that the house in question
was the Durham Heifer, a public house. We know a little of its
history. Its earliest name was the Machine House and its publicans
were: 1778-89, Daniel Clowes; 1790-96, John Clowes; 1797-1813, John
Poole; 1814-18, Thomas Blagg; and 1819-22, George Cookson.
Then there is a bit of a
gap and we know that there were several name changes for the
building. It became the Plume of Feathers, then the Durham Ox and
finally the Durham Heifer as is shown on Bryant's 1832 map of
Nantwich (left). In charge at these times were: 1841, John Corns,
publican; 1851, George Bebbington, publican and glazier; 1861,
George Bebbington, publican and farmer; 1871, Thomas Youd, publican
and farmer of seven acres; and 1881, Benjamin South, innkeeper.
The building ceased being a
public house in the early 20th century, but it still stands.
Andrew later received this e-mail from
Mike: "Thank
you
so much for all the information and images regarding the Durham
Heifer. It is
greatly appreciated.
This
now brings my public house total to seven
in
my ancestry searches,
three of which are still
trading. I must visit them all soon."
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Does the Black Horse Inn still exist? |
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This photograph, showing the Black Horse Inn - the white building - is
in Andrew’s book “Lost Houses in Nantwich”. |
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IS there still a Black Horse Inn on Hospital Street in Nantwich?
Victoria Rodgers
NOVEMBER 2010
Andrew replies:
Victoria,
The Black Horse Inn
in Hospital Street no longer exists. It stood on the corner of the
Gullet and the site is now occupied by Rogers' Masonry Yard. We know
that its licence ran from 1844 until its closure in 1910.
In
Dr. J. A. MacGregor's book, “The Inns and Innkeepers of Nantwich”,
he mentions the circumstances of closure which make interesting reading.
To
quote: "By 1891 it had come into the possession of the Stockport
brewers, Showell and Sons. In 1909, this fully-licensed house next to
the Gullet was referred for closure under the Compensation Act. The
report gave a number of reasons for extinguishing its licence. Very
little trade was being done, the rooms had low ceilings, and the
building generally was structurally unfit for licensed premises.
“There
had been eight licensees since 1897. In its favour, it was admitted that
the house was now well conducted and was used by 'a respectable class of
people'; and the house remained open. However, the inn was referred
again the following year, after Hardy Fletcher had been made temporary
manager in November 1909. The new report added that the Black Horse
provided the worst accommodation in the vicinity, and that Evan Hayes
had confessed to using the 'long pull'."
There is
also a list of the names of the 16 licensees attached to this extract.
It is not known when the building was demolished but it is thought to be
some time after 1913.
Andrew.
Then Victoria’s
mother, Nena Rodgers, contacted Andrew.
Victoria has posed
the question on behalf of her mother who had spent a day in Nantwich
trying to find the Black Horse. Nena is tracing her family history, of
which the Stone family is a part.
Victoria added: "I must admit your website
is very interesting. I'm going back to have another read."
I WOULD
like to thank you for the information. It was very interesting. My great
great uncle, John Stone, ran the inn in 1861. George Stone, my great
grandfather (John's nephew) was staying with him at the time. He was 13
years old.
I am over the moon to see a photo of the inn. I can’t thank
you enough for that information. I am going to see if I can get the
books you mentioned.
Nena Rodgers,
Birkenhead.
Nena,
I can't add much
more. MacGregor has the licensees as Henry Vickers 1853-60, John Stone
1861 and Lawrence Place 1864-5, so John Stone wasn't there very long.
You'll
have difficulty getting copies of the books as they're both out of
print, but not impossible if you search the Internet for a second-hand
copy.
Andrew.
FOOTNOTE: Nena later found a copy of the
book.
Lost Houses of Nantwich
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When did school close? |
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Wood Street School,
July 1, 1886, to June 30, 1887, open 433 times.
John Dutton, 433;
Martha Dutton, 431; Emma Boyer, 430; Nellie Wardell, 430; Wm Platt, 428;
Walter Peake, 427; Harry Maybury, 424; Wm Maybury, 424; Eliza Wright,
423; Frank Platt, 420; Amelia Lamb, 420.
Infants:
Elizabeth Lamb, 433;
John Wardell, 432; Walter Shenton, 429; George Walley, 426; George
Fisher, 413; Margaret Cooper, 413; John Sutton, 410.
Wood Street School,
June 30, 1887, to June 30, 1888, open 438 times.
John Dutton, 437; Aaron
Davies, 436; Harry Maybury, 436; George Walley, 436; Walter Peake, 435;
John Wardell, 432; Wm Devonport, 430; Eliza Wright, 430; Elizabeth Lamb,
429; Annie Downing, 427; Wm Maybury, 424; George Barnett, 424; Margaret
Cooper, 423; Wm Downing, 423; Alice Knowles, 423.
Infants:
John Walley, 434; Fred
Downing, 425; Sarah A Bullock, 421; Wm Williamson, 420.
Wood Street National
School, June 30, 1888, to
June 30, 1889,
open 425 times.
Walter Peake, 425;
Alice Knowles, 422; Alfred Lumb, 412; Harry Maybury, 422; Wm Maybury,
422; Tom Barker, 414; Annie Williamson, 412; Emma Bowyer, 411; James
Bullock, 411; Maggie Chesworth, 411; Mary Bolance, 409; Martha Bowyer,
408; Florrie Chesworth, 407;
Wm Noden, 407; John
Wardell, 406; Nellie Wardell, 405; Horace Davenport, 404; Annie Downing,
404; Eliza Wright, 404; Albert Knowles, 402; Wm Taylor, 401.
(No separate list of
Infants). |
I WONDER if you know when the Wood
Street National School closed? I have a newspaper cutting of the
attendance record of a number of children for the years 1887,
1888, 1889 (list above). Perhaps there may be some Dabbers who
had great grandparents on the list.
John Prince, Nantwich.
OCTOBER 2010
John,
I can tell you that the Wood Street
(Church of England) School, Nantwich, opened in 1874 and closed in
1911. There are three school log books relating to this period at
the County Record Office at Chester. Would you have a great
grandparent in the list?
Andrew.
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The questions continue >> |
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