familylines

Am I a Dabber?

JUST where do you have to be born to qualify as being a "Dabber" - someone born "within the old Nantwich town boundaries?" This is a question that is often asked, and a variation of the question relates to the former Cliffe maternity home. This was first in the parish of Hough - at one time under the Nantwich Registration District - and then, with boundary changes, in Wybunbury. Does this count?

Let's ask the two experts, Paul Simpson (Family Lines) and historian Andrew Lamberton (Ask Andrew).

First, Paul Simpson:

ANYONE not born within the town boundary cannot be a Dabber. The parish of Nantwich boundary is clear on the tithe maps which are easy to compare with the modern versions. To search these old maps go to http://maps.cheshire.gov.uk/tithemaps/. You can switch two map views between OS1910, OS1875, Aerial 1970s, Aerial 2000, Modern Map and the Cheshire Tithe Map 1836-51. The tithe maps show all of the old parish boundaries.

The link to the maps gives data held by Chester Records Office (CRO) which is in the public domain, but the material is copyright.

Here is a rough guide to the boundaries on the roads out of town:

Welsh Row - just after the almshouses and before Nantwich and Acton Grammar School (now Malbank School).

The B50747, Barony Road - at Beam Bridge.

Middlewich Road - at the end of All Saints' cemetery.

Park View - at the junction with Birchin Lane.

Crewe Road - just after the new Coppice Close.

Willaston - at the junction of Green Lane and Eastern Road.

Newcastle Road - at Blakelow Farm.

London Road - where the fork in the road with Newcastle Road used to be.

Audlem Road - at the junction with Peter de Stapleigh Way (but not including the Cronkinson Farm housing estate).

Audlem Road - where the sub post office used to be.

Shrewbridge Road - just before the river bridge, but not the lake, and following the river to the railway bridge.

Wrenbury Road - at the junction with Green Lane and back to Malbank School.

The Barony Hospital was just inside the parish of Nantwich boundary which went over on to the Beam Heath land, in the Parish of Nantwich in the Township of Alvaston.

As for The Cliffe maternity home, this was in the parish of Hough which came under the Nantwich Registration District. (See this page for a full list: http://www.ukbmd.org.uk/genuki/reg/districts/ nantwich.html). The district was active from 1837 to 1974 when it was taken over by Cheshire Central at which time Nantwich became a sub-district. The register is held by Cheshire Central Registers at Delamere House in Crewe.

Anyone looking for their registration will find a reference such as NA/XXX/XXX, the XXXs representing figures and the second group being the entry in that register which will also be on your birth certificate.

For the record (no pun intended), any details provided are in the public domain on the Internet - and available to all. The Births, Marriages and Deaths data is open to anyone and no subscription is required.

Now Andrew Lamberton:

MY understanding of the definition of a Dabber was that you had to be born, and lived, in Nantwich for 10 years within the old town boundaries. But I have not seen this written down anywhere and I think there is probably no definitive version.

I'm not too familiar with the arrangements for giving birth locally during the 20th Century, but most babies in Nantwich were, I think, born at home.

There were nursing homes - I know of two in Willaston where babies were born from 1929 to 1939 or so - but I have come across none in Nantwich.

Regarding The Cliffe, it was used as a convalescent home for soldiers during the Second World War. It became vacant for a while and was then used as a maternity home from around 1947 to around 1965 when the maternity unit was transferred to the Barony Hospital.

Footnote by Dabber:

I AM sure that Andrew has made an uncharacteristic error when he says people have to have lived in Nantwich for 10 years to be a Dabber. My understanding is that you are a Dabber from the moment you are born as long as the birth was within the old town boundaries.

He may be confusing it with people qualifying for a share of the Beam Heath Trust annual dividend. This is paid to Nantwich householders or tenants - and so not newly-born babies. Newcomers to the town who have a house within the town boundaries qualify after seven years' residence. If you leave town and then return, you qualify to receive the money again after two years.

What is a Dabber?

Seeking the Kings and the Vaughans

Picture courtesy of Cheshire and Chester Archives and Local Studies

Swine Market - on a Nantwich Board of Health map of 1851 - features in the question below about the licensee of one of the public houses. And our experts name the pub in question. The unnamed building on the corner in the bottom right of the map later became the Zan shop. Most of these buildings no longer exist.

I AND my cousins from Utah, U.S.A., are coming to Nantwich in May to try to find the address 154 Swine Market where our great, great, great grandfather, Augustus King, was registered as a victualler.

He and his wife, Mary, had several children and my great, great grandmother, Sarah Anne King, married into the Vaughans of Hospital Street. She married a William Vaughan and they buried a child, Ellen Vaughan, in St. Mary's before moving to Tunstall in 1860.

Sarah's brother moved to Utah and I have several hundred family members there now, two of which are making the ancestral trip to me in May.

We think that Frederick King and his brother, Robert, learned the tanning trade at the tannery on the outskirts of Nantwich.

Could you please let me know if 154 Swine Market still exists, and is there any information we could obtain which would reveal the lives of our ancestors, the Kings and the Vaughans?

I am told that a Lloyd Vaughan was a mayor in Nantwich in the 1970s. He would have been my dad's third cousin.

This is a shot in the dark as I have just stumbled over you on a Google search and I would be eternally grateful if you could help us.

Robert Baggaley, Tunstall, Staffordshire. MARCH 2011

Paul Simpson replies:

Robert, I am sending you a section of a Nantwich Board of Health map of 1851 (above) which shows all of Swine Market and you will see there are no more than 25 buildings. The number 154 you are referring to is a common mistake when reading census information as it is the enumerator's index number not the number of the property. I spotted this when checking the Census information.

As a victualler, I would have expected Augustus to be in one of the two public houses on the street (The Red Lion is on Oat Market, I think) so it would be either The White Lion (on the corner of the street) or The Nantwich Arms (on the right-hand side of the north to south part of the street). To confirm the correct pub, Nantwich Library has a book in the local history section on the pubs and landlords of Nantwich and you should find the information you need in that. [Or you could see Andrew Lamberton's note below. - Dabber]

Unfortunately, none of the buildings on the attached map, apart from some on the side of Oat Market, exist now. This was a very run-down area and was demolished in the late 1960/1970s. What was the White Lion would be where the B&M shop is now and The Nantwich Arms was in the middle of the opposite side of the street.

lA picture of the Snow Hill area from the air appears on this website and Swine Market is part of that area. You should be able to match this to the map as the view is the same way around, more or less.

lAs for Lloyd Vaughan, until 2009 Nantwich had a Chairman of the Town Council (now they have a Mayor) and the Chairman’s chain of office is now on display at the Nantwich Museum, so you can visit and see that. The full Board of Health maps are also available to view at the museum.

lA "tannery on the outskirts of the town" could be Blud's (pronounced Blewd's). The tannery no longer exists but the owner's house is still standing as 165 Welsh Row. Again, you can check this out in the museum on the Board of Health maps.

Andrew Lamberton writes:

I CAN confirm that Augustus King was the licensee of the Nantwich Arms in 1851. According to Dr. J. A. MacGregor (who wrote the book, “The Inns and Innkeepers of Nantwich”), he was only there from 1851 until 1856 when the licensee was William Boote.

Robert later sent this e-mail with more family information:

I AM so very, very grateful for your information which I have already shared with my cousins in Utah who are of King blood - like me. We think this is the closest we have got to walking in the steps of our ancestors.

Augustus King's wife, Mary, is buried in Tunstall cemetery. Augustus is buried in Kidderminster. Their son, Frederick, went to Utah and we have several hundred cousins in the Western USA, many very important Mormons.

Once again, thank you for your time and your help.

Before it was the Zan

Andrew Lamberton adds:

The Zan shop was not there in 1851 (at the time of the map).

There were a few different names for those premises, including Mrs Carrington's hat shop.

Then there was R.Dixon, grocer and provisions dealer, before the Zan.

Dixon's is pictured, right, as seen from near to The Square

Where can I find more about family's failed business? New information

I AM looking for some information about my great grandfather, Edward Hilditch, who was born on August 13, 1838, in Mill Street, Willaston, Nantwich, and died on May 9, 1922 in Nantwich. He had a boot and shoe manufacturing business in Nantwich which went bankrupt in about 1886. I was wondering where I might look to find more about why the business failed and where he lived in Nantwich?

Ron Hilditch MARCH 2011

Paul Simpson replies:

Hi, Ron,

You don’t say where you are from so I will assume you don’t know the area. There's not a lot on the business but the Census data is interesting.

In 1861, Edward is listed as a shoe manufacturer, and in 1881 he is a boot cutter. In 1871 I can’t make out what is written, and in 1891 and onwards he is an insurance agent.

Your comment about him being born in Mill Street is confirmed in the 1841 Census but the street is in Nantwich. However, he may have been born in Willaston, a village next to Nantwich on the way to Crewe.

By 1851, the family have moved to Marsh Lane off Welsh Row in Nantwich, and by 1861 he is married with children and living at Cartwright's Row (I can’t remember where this is. See below.)

In 1871, there is no change of location but in 1881 they have moved to No 1 Heath Bank Cottages off Birchin Lane (next to Park View). They are still there in 1891.

Being an insurance agent must be a lot better for the family as in 1901 they have moved to 32 Park View, a much better property, and they are still there in 1911.

The marriage certificate reference lists the wedding as a civil marriage so that would be Roman Catholic or non-conformist or even a register office but you would have to order the certificate to find out. You can do this at http://www.cheshirebmd.org.uk/.

Edward and his wife, Mary, are buried at Whitehouse Lane cemetery, Nantwich. Whitehouse Lane is a continuation of Park View.

Paul also sent Ron details of the cemetery plot and more about the Hilditch family.

FOOTNOTE: Andrew Lamberton told Paul: "Cartwright's Row is made up of two rows of cottages off

Birchin Lane, now called separately Bank Top Cottages and Heath Bank Cottages. They were called Cartwright's Row because they were built on land owned by Sampson Cartwright (see Lost Houses in Nantwich).

Trying to find out more about my family

MY father’s grandfather was John Hammersley, shoemaker. He is listed in Kelly’s directory 1914 as "John Hammersley, 12 Oat Market, shopkeeper". My father remembers staying with his uncles Sam and "Inky" at their cobblers shop on Oat Market during the 1920s and it does seem that his mum would have had an uncle Issac. Perhaps this was him.

I have found many of my ancestors in the Census listings but don’t really know much about them. I wonder whether you would know where I might find some info about any of these individuals or even any old photos of Oat Market which might show my fathers' grandfather's shop. I also wonder whether there are any photos of the old Red Lion on Oat Market / Swine Market as my father lived right next door as a young boy.

My father’s uncle, John Hammersley (right), is listed on the cenotaph in Nantwich. He signed up in 1914 and was killed in October 1918.

My father (Thomas Hughes) is 90 and grew up in Nantwich. He lived on Oat Market, First Wood Street and then Dog Lane. He is still lives independently in his own home and I’m sure he would enjoy talking to you if you wished to know anything about Nantwich in the '20s and '30s.

I would be most grateful for any info you have on this Hammersley family.

Many thanks

Helen Oakes MARCH 2011

Paul Simpson replies:

Hi, Helen, I am sending you a few items. One is a head shot of John Hammersley (above) and details from a local book "Crewe and Nantwich at War . . . A Visual Memory, Volume 1" by Mark Potts and Tony Marks (Brookmark Publications), together with details from "Dear Mrs Jones", also by Mark Potts.

The details are: “Private John Hammersley, 2^nd Batallion Durham Light Infantry who was killed in action during the final advance in Picardy on October 27, 1918. Born Nantwich, enlisted Leicester, buried Highland Cemetery, France. Son of the late John and Jane Hammersley of Nantwich. News of his death was relayed to his sisters who were residing at 34 First Wood Street, Nantwich. Enlisted 6^th August 1914, Yorks & Lancs Regiment.”

A picture of the Red Lion pub is also attached. Because of its position in Oat Market and Swine Market, it had three front doors and no back door.

On the enclosed picture of Snow Hill, the building at the bottom with the pointed roof is the Zan store on the end of Oat Market so that group of buildings is the one you are looking for. The Red Lion is at the opposite end of the street to the Zan store.

I hope this is of help.

l The picture of John Hammersley is used with the permission of Mark Potts and Tony Marks. Mark says the "Dear Mrs Jones" books have sold out, but he has a few copies of "Crewe and Nantwich at War . . . A Visual Memory, Volumes 1 and 2". Use the "Mark Pott's next book" link for contact details.

The Red Lion pub | Snow Hill | Mark Potts' next book

Seeking information on great grandfather's schools

I AM trying to find information on two schools, one in Nantwich and one in Crewe. I have searched on Google for information but seem to go round in circles, so hopefully you can point me in the direction of where I can get something more.
   My great grandfather, James Woodhead, was a school master at Crewe Academy from 1887 to 1894, I have had no luck with this and assume that either the school now has a different name or does not exist.
   In 1889, his son, George Leonard, was born at 98 Ruskin Road, Monks Coppenhall, and in the 1891 Census they were at 302 Walthall Street which runs parallel to Ruskin Road. I see on the map that there is South Cheshire College nearby and wonder if this could be Crewe Academy?
   From 1902 to 1904, James Woodhead is a teacher at Nantwich and Acton Grammar School, where his son, George, is also a pupil at the same time. I have copies of school reports for George. It looks as if the headmaster is Mr S Moor or Moon. I have found information about the grammar school and how it changed name and where it was, so that has been helpful to build up a picture.
   I am interested in finding out if there are school records for either school and anything I can purchase or get copies of, especially teacher/pupil photographs if there are any records. Is there a local historian who has written a book about either of these schools?
   Any information will be much appreciated.
Janette Woodhead, Hereford.                                                                  DECEMBER 2010

Paul Simpson replies:

Hi Janette,

Nantwich and Acton Grammar School it is now Malbank School and Sixth Form College. A history of the school is on its web site and you can follow this link: http://www.malbank.cheshire.sch.uk/school_history.htm and this: http://www.malbank.cheshire.sch.uk/450th-anniversary.html. I hope this is of some help to you.

I have received the following from one of the family history society members:

"I can give you some info about the Crewe Academy. It has not existed for quite some time and certainly has nothing to do with South Cheshire College.

"It was formed shortly before 1874 by William Dishart who was also the Principal. His son, also William, took over some time later.

"It was a Presbyterian Boys and Girls Preparatory School and was sometimes known as Dishart’s Academy, or Billy Dishart’s Academy and also as Cats Abbey.

"It started off at 149 Edleston Road but in the early 1900s moved to above the Mechanics Institute in Earle Street. I do not know when it ceased to exist but it was still going in 1939.

"I have a copy of an advertisement for the school from 1895 and this shows a Mr Woodhead as First Assistant."

Eaton family in Nantwich | More Family Lines items appear here